Doing It Different Might Be Doing It Right

Everyday you wake up and follow the same routine. You put your clothes on the same way and only brush your teeth at certain times. When you start a design you go and look for inspiration and from that inspiration you start to come up with ideas. The logo goes in the upper-left corner, the navigation goes across the top and depending on what type of site you are designing, you either have a large image or two columns laid out nicely.

You know you could make the footer really cool with tons of information and you have to make sure that all the ways a person can subscribe (RSS, Twitter and email) to the site are in the upper-right corner. You could try something new, but what’s the point? These are all conventional methods that have been around forever and you know that your audience is use to them so there is no reason to change.

When it comes to client work there is absolutely no reason to even try pushing your limits anymore because every time you have tried in the past they shot you down. They want what their competitors have. You think of a great idea in your head and scrap it immediately out of fear of rejection.

Ads? Well, we all know what to do with them. Stick them in the sidebar, stack em up and collect the money. That is the only way to go about it and since that is how businesses pay you, why should you bother changing it? God forbid you move them around on different pages or just use one ad slot to show advertisers that this is a better way to get attention. Industry practices are your practices.

Maybe you are one of those designers that has reached the point of no return where you don’t even try to experiment anymore. Maybe your imagination has gone out the window. Design shouldn’t always be fun and you shouldn’t always have fun doing what you do for a living. When you first started you had a ton of crazy ideas of things you could do on the web, but eventually the system broke you down. Over time you started to conform and that uniqueness went away. I mean honestly, what is the point of trying something new if nobody accepts it?

Having a hard time designing for yourself? Keep a list of frustrating things clients won’t let you do-then do those things on your own site.

@chriscoyier

However, what would happen if you designed a page and looked at every element on it and decided that it was done wrong? What if you went to a competitor’s site and figured that even though they were a success, it could be done better? Do you think then you would look at your design and try to find ways to improve it even if you are following conventional methods? Maybe then you would throw out the conventional and play with the experimental.

There are times when the conventional method is the best method. I can’t tell you when that is or if that statement is even true. Perhaps it is only the best method because someone hasn’t come up with a better one yet. When “designing” this site (which is in a constant state of development) I had a hard time of coming up with a logotype. You see, I’m not good at picking fonts or laying out typography. I tried a number of different fonts and I didn’t like how any of them looked when they spelled Drawar. I figured the brand and identity of the site would show through the experience that the audience has here.

40,000+ people have come to the site in 30 days and nobody has mentioned a thing about it. I’m not sure if people notice it or they just don’t care, but maybe you don’t always need to blast your audience with what site they are on. Can’t they usually tell from the title bar anyways? There are no rules of design, just best practices that can be stretched, twisted and molded into your own creations.

What holds us back from pushing certain boundaries? Probably the fact that we don’t want to miss out on gaining more people or pissing off our clients. How many people do you chase away though because your site is no different than the rest? How mad would your clients be if they knew they weren’t getting everything you could offer? Sometimes it is okay to assume that everything that has been done before is wrong. This is how Apple thinks and exactly the opposite of how Microsoft thinks.

I Think I’ll Put The Ad In The Footer, Below The Copyright

idsgn

idsgn

How often have you redesigned your blog and said you were tired of a two column layout, but stuck with it because it was the “right” thing to do? Plumbers have to do their job a certain way because plumbing is not about finding new ways to solve a problem. A pipe is broken so you fix it. Same with auto-mechanics. Designers though are given the ability to solve problems any way they want and yet most of them choose to solve the problem someone else’s way. Why put yourself in a creative profession when you are never creative?

It can be scary pushing your own limits. Nobody likes to try something and watch it fail, but instead of going back to the norm when it fails, why not try to see if you can make it work? How many success stories can you think of where someone said they did it exactly like the other guys and won? Want to see a site that is doing things differently both conceptually and from a design point of view? Pictory. People will like it and they will copy it. They won’t win.

You aren’t bigger or better than Smashing Magazine because you tried to be exactly like them. You will never be as successful as Zeldman because you followed his lead. To steal from Tyme White, Digg clones? See ya.

Face it, you probably aren’t a designer because you make 90% of your job copying, when 90% of your job should be imagining. You wonder why you and your designs get drowned out and like to believe that the web is just too crowded, when in reality you just aren’t original. Everyone started where you are now and the leaders have always been the ones that innovated. They saw their own way to do something and followed that path. You figured that adding a slight curve to what has already been done would put you on top. It didn’t work and it shouldn’t have.

Seriously, when was the last time you pushed the envelope and tried something different?

I know, I know, after all this reading you are still going to tell me that sometimes you just have to do things the way people want you to do them and I agree. Can’t revolutionize every piece of work you do (or can you?), but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t at least think about it. All designers, developers, online apps, etc. are fighting for their place on the web, but all of them are the same so the only thing they are fighting for is last place. When everyone has a knife, the guy with the gun will probably win.

In 2010 make an effort to push yourself and if you have to play it safe with clients, work on your own projects that let you do what you will. It’s okay to look around to see what others are doing, but that doesn’t mean it should be the way to go about it. We have reached a point of design saturation on the web where doing it right means you need to look at everything differently.

The goal of Drawar is to establish a brand that stands out from the rest of the design community. With so many sites and people around doing what everyone else does didn’t make any sense. Write articles/entries that come from your own mind and not that of other’s. Create designs that showcase your imagination and not something you learned in a book or saw in a gallery. 90% of the industry is more talented than I am and yet I get offers from people looking to see if I will design their sites, write articles for them and how they can work with me in the future. Develop an ego and understand that if you really believe you should be successful at whatever you are doing then you have to do it your way.


Help spread the word and after that...

...please follow Drawar on Twitter here or subscribe here.

 

31 Responses to Doing It Different Might Be Doing It Right

Matt M.

12.29.09
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Wonderful article. The quote, "Keep a list of frustrating things clients won’t let you do-then do those things on your own site" is a really powerful one because one of the most common contentions we have with a lot of our clients is that they see the things everything else is doing and want to imitate them because it works. But, as you said, doing what everyone else does is not going to get you ranked higher or more sought after - you need to have your own way of doing things!
 

Tyme

12.29.09
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When it comes to client work there is absolutely no reason to even try pushing your limits anymore because every time you have tried in the past they shot you down. They want what their competitors have. You think of a great idea in your head and scrap it immediately out of fear of rejection.


Well, isn't this a sign of incompatibility? The focus should be on resolving client problems instead of designing something cool. Or better yet, is it even fair for the designer to expect to be able to push their limits on someone else's dime (the client paying for the site)?

Personally, I think designers bring a lot of their headaches upon themselves.

40,000+ people have come to the site in 30 days and nobody has mentioned a thing about it. I’m not sure if people notice it or they just don’t care, but maybe you don’t always need to blast your audience with what site they are on.


Haven't you noticed designers rarely challenge others in the community? It's sad to see because that in itself stops the community as a whole to be innovative.

Seriously, when was the last time you pushed the envelope and tried something different?


That's why designers have sites so they can push boundaries and show to their clients. Yet the one place where their skill can be seen by the world is one of the most overlooked assets. I'll never understand that.

The goal of Drawar is to establish a brand that stands out from the rest of the design community.


Well, doesn't everyone want to do that? Do you have a more specific goal?

Develop an ego and understand that if you really believe you should be successful at whatever you are doing then you have to do it your way.


Develop an ego or develop confidence in their skills?
 

Scrivs

12.29.09
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It's a sign of a designer/developer who doesn't set the expectations of the client correctly. It is a sign of a designer/developer who doesn't properly educate the client on how they work. If the goal is to simply make websites there are plenty of people around to do that, but if the goal is to produce websites that they are proud of and ones that help their clients step above and beyond the competition then a different approach is needed.

You are correct when you say a lot of designers bring issues upon themselves. Hopefully, you saw the sarcasm in my first quoted block.

No, everyone doesn't want to do that. I only say that because if so then you would think everyone would be trying to achieve that. I know it sounds silly, but if these people thought about what they are actually trying to do, then they would realize many of their actions go completely against that.

Develop an ego AND develop a confidence in your abilities. You need an ego because if you are doing things properly and pushing boundaries you will be criticized for it. Your ego is that little voice that hopefully pushes you to continue to do so, but most designers have an ego that tell them that everything they do is perfect.
 

Scrivs

12.29.09
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@Matt: I know very few people who go about things in their own way. It is a scary thing to do so I understand why so many people avoid it. The safe route is the route that others have proven worked, but I usually avoid that route. Probably a good reason why I'm not a billionaire by now, but the lessons I have learned throughout are more valuable to me now than not knowing about them in the past.
 

Todd Moffett

12.29.09
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The web has evolved with a set of standards that have been well applied to help achieve its ultimate goal. Fast, efficient gathering of information and convenient methods of purchasing products and services. We live in a world that has been designed for rapid consumption. I personally have my own issues with that type of design mentality but, it's tough to argue the fact that it is working.

The process of design is what needs to change. It's really more about what we are designing then how we continue to design it.
 

Tyme

12.29.09
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It's a sign of a designer/developer who doesn't set the expectations of the client correctly. It is a sign of a designer/developer who doesn't properly educate the client on how they work. If the goal is to simply make websites there are plenty of people around to do that, but if the goal is to produce websites that they are proud of and ones that help their clients step above and beyond the competition then a different approach is needed


Well, I guess this is where we agree to disagree. Usually a web site is not going to help a company compete better with the competition (depends on the company though). Yes, the goal is to make a site that helps the company grow but if the job is something the designer wouldn't be proud doing he/she should walk away. I don't think the company has any responsibility to the designer in that regard. Where else does the purchaser care in the person making/producing the product is "proud"?

Also, there is a conflict of interest here. It's great to push their limits, etc. but what you are saying (if I understand correctly) is that the company should be more open to these cool ideas even though 1) they don't necessarily need them 2) they increase the budget because the designer isn't doing this for free 3) increase the development time because, essentially, the designer is learning.

So I wonder if it is the designer not setting the expectations properly for the company or the designer has unrealistic expectations in the first place?

Congrats on your site. Have a wonderful New Years and a marvelous 2010! :)
 

Scrivs

12.29.09
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I don't think I said it was the responsibility of the client to help the designer create work they are proud of. My point was that designers, before any design is even done, probably don't talk to their clients well enough to set the expectations of both. Some designers expect that they can do anything, while the clients expect the designers to do everything exactly how they say it should be done.

Will a designer pushing the limit increase the budget? I'm not so sure. I wasn't expecting anyone to jump into 3D technology, but for example on Drawar, if this was owned by someone else and I had designed, would not including the title of the site on the actual site increase the budget?

They don't need cool ideas? I agree if those ideas don't serve any real purpose. I would never encourage people to push uselessness upon their clients, which I made apparently clear in the Minimalism article.

Increase development time? Not sure how unless they are learning a whole new set of tools. If you are a painter and all your strokes are done vertically, but you do a new painting and your strokes are horizontal I don't think it adds to the time. Designers should know their tools and ways to push them. If you have to learn something new, learn it on your own time.
 

Tyme

12.30.09
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Well, let's see. If someone else owned this site and you designed it, being that you said you tried different fonts and did not like them, wouldn't it add time to the project while you figured it out, thus increasing the budget since you spent additional time on it? That doesn't include scripts, coding, Ajax, HTML5 or anything else that could actually benefit the client but the designer is not knowledgeable or skilled in that area. However, you said the designer should learn these things on their own time. It takes time to master those skills though so I don't see how project times can avoid being inflated due to lack of skill.

I think the breakdown is that I have talked to designers recently about making a design for me (Elixsir). Have you done that? It's an interesting process. I contacted several designers. I said that I was switching to EE 2.0, which does not have a default template. I was in the process of moving the data into EE so I wasn't sure about a final design. For the moment, I wanted a texted based design so when the data is imported I can view it and make decisions on a final design. I gave Jason Santa Maria as an example of a text based design (when I say text I still get graphics for some reason) but I was clear: no graphics, temporary design, nothing fancy...I just needed something so I could see the data I was importing. I also said that due to comments being crazy on my site I wanted the entry to link to a forum entry instead of comments. However, I did not specify I wanted a forum template.

1) None of them asked me questions prior to providing a quote asking me to clarify what I wanted.
2) None of them seem to have a clear idea what I wanted because...
3) The lowest price I received was $5000. The minimal time to make this bare bone template: 2 weeks.

Out of the 20+ designs I've had done over the years I NEVER had one done within the time the designer set for themselves. Never. Most times, I don't ask for any changes or it's something very minor like giving them the exact color change I want.

Obviously I haven't worked with every designer but from the people I've talked to, my clients and my personal experience, we've all had similar experiences. The problem is much bigger than you present...from my experience.
 

Jordan Austin

12.30.09
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I must say that I think Scrivs did bring out some key points. Obviously the main focus was on Designers not trying something different and just copying other. However if you take what Tyme was saying about wasting time and ultimately the clients money that can't be fair either. Scrivs put it correctly when he said in is comment:

"If you are a painter and all your strokes are done vertically, but you do a new painting and your strokes are horizontal I don't think it adds to the time. Designers should know their tools and ways to push them. If you have to learn something new, learn it on your own time."

It's not fair to charge more money or add extra time to a clients project because the designer just wants to try something new, especially if that's not going to benefit the client.

I think the Chris Coyier quote "Having a hard time designing for yourself? Keep a list of frustrating things clients won’t let you do-then do those things on your own site."

Is good, but I also have a feeling that Chris was talking about clients not allowing you to do something that (according to the designer) is an actual benefit, and I'd hope if you are asking the client to consider this you actually know how to do it and know why it may be a real benefit to the client.

However, that being said, if the client doesn't want it, there may be some solid reason why they choose that. And again, looking at Tymes last comment, obviously many 'designers' aren't even understanding what the client is looking for to begin with, so how would they be able to suggest something NEW if they can't even grasp the basic concept.

Thanks Scrivs for this great article and thank you Tyme for shedding further light on some of the issues out there.
 

Scrivs

12.30.09
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When it comes to typography any good designer tries out a number of fonts so how much time is added is no different than any other design project that I have seen. Established clients would already have a typography in place for their company one would hope.

I didn't specify what the designer should learn, some jobs require you to know everything under the sun, while other designers are fortunate to simply be designers who get to make the pretty things without having to code them. It seems to be foolish thought for someone to take a job that requires AJAX for example and not contract that part out to someone with the skills. Project times being increased due to lack of skill isn't the point of this article. If a designer is unskilled in what he is attempting or a client picks one that is in over his head that is another issue.

The issues you bring up seem more like business issues, as our other discussion, than the issues brought up by the article. Designers have a knack for taking jobs that they aren't qualified for simply because they can push something out and get paid for it.

The three points you list show that you weren't working with qualified designers that have a sense of a proper client-designer relationship. It doesn't surprise me that this is the case since this has always been the case. It's a profession filled with everybodys.

These are issues for designers to work out themselves. I'm sure I'll talk about these things as time moves forward, but they shouldn't wait for someone like me to bring it up or become aware of it through your comments.
 

Tyme

12.30.09
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@Jordan - You're welcome. :)

@Scrivs - Like I said, I guess this is where we agree to disagree. Again, happy New Year's and a merry 2010. :)
 

simplyann

12.30.09
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Do you remember getting word questions in grade school maths? On the side of the page there would be a list of problem solving strategies to choose from to help you answer the question. Sometimes you had to choose a strategy and show your work; sometimes you could come up with your own and get to the same answer. Eventually I found we were solving the same problem using a different set of strategies every time. It wasn't until we moved on to a different chapter and a whole new set of theories and concepts that things got interesting. Until, of course, we'd exhausted all paths to the answer.

It seems we're all trying to solve the same problem and we might have exhausted all the clever strategies there are. It's the case with the CSS galleries, the Slider-filled themes and so on and so forth. Perhaps we should try finding another way to define the problems.

I work with people who don't necessarily have the tech skills required to navigate the Internet, yet every day I'm surprised at how they figure it out for themselves. For a long time I thought they were 'doing it wrong', but suddenly I realized they were just doing it differently. They'd defined the problem of getting to point A from point B differently than I had, and as such got to the same website another way.

All designers, developers, online apps, etc. are fighting for their place on the web, but all of them are the same so the only thing they are fighting for is last place. When everyone has a knife, the guy with the gun will probably win.


Maybe as designers or designers-to-be we've got to look to other spaces outside of the traditional design communities to come up with something outside the box. We're too much in each others' heads, on each others' websites to truly get out of the box solutions.
 

Tyme

12.30.09
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I just got home, checked my email and I figured I might as well respond to the "don't stop talking" emails I'm receiving. Thank you for sending them and I'm glad you found value in my words. However, when a blog owner tells you that your response is off-topic, doesn't understand what you're saying and worse, doesn't ask - stop talking because it usually doesn't help the situation. Don't argue, just move on. Andy Clarke said it well:

Reading @24ways for the last time this year. Some people couldn't see the nose on their face unless it was pointed out to them.


If you haven't read his article on 24 ways please do. It's a great read. However, if you read the comments, you see the same thing happening over there that is happening here, which is the same thing that happened to me when I received $5000 prices for a barebone template. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make the horse drink it. Even with experienced designers patiently trying to help people understand they still don't get it. Fascinating and sad at the same time. Andy spoke of SEVERAL business principles in his article. Andy understands the very simple idea that when he sits down to design for a client, it's business. It's his job. It's his work. Designers, who didn't get what Andy was saying, had their opportunity to ask questions to try to gain knowledge, and blew it. Ignorance is Bliss - note the title of his article and the irony.

Because that would require them to push their limits and step outside their boundaries.

Scrivs and I have known each other for 4+ years. If he didn't realize that I'm not one to throw something off-topic and maybe he's missing something (or I'm missing something) and ask, I can't expect a stranger to, can I? Just like I guess I shouldn't have expected a designer to realize a $5000 price for a barebone template makes no sense and ask some questions.

Note with Andy's article, the comments continued to flow, but Andy stopped responding on the 23rd. At some point you have to realize you've done all you can do. I tried but to keep trying to explain would, as per Scrivs, throw the discussion off-topic. I'm going out of town today so to me, that kind of proves it's time to move on to something else.

Everyone, have a wonderful holiday and I wish you much success for 2010!
 

Creative_Guru

12.30.09
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WOW, thanks for this article and more so all of the great back and forth going on in the comments!

But when i read this post by Scrivs, as a print designer who dabbles in a little web design, I am totally on board with his point.

If you are a designer or an artist isn't you creative right to push the envelope? Do we always have to be concerned by what the client thinks? Be your own client and create new boundaries.

"In 2010 make an effort to push yourself and if you have to play it safe with clients, work on your own projects that let you do what you will. It’s okay to look around to see what others are doing, but that doesn’t mean it should be the way to go about it. We have reached a point of design saturation on the web where doing it right means you need to look at everything differently."

I think the only way to come up with new ideas is to experiment... do the 90% imagining. It really helps to let those creative juices flow. I know when it come to a paying clients you need to follow what they say, but maybe take on a pro-bono gig and try out something new.

The comments and this article can go on forever and that's great about articles like this... it allow the discussion to continue and the community to thrive.
 

Scrivs

12.30.09
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I've read this conversation a number of times and am a bit confused as to what I should be asking when you continue to come back and explain yourself. I hit every point that you bring up and even agree with the business principles about how designers shouldn't push their limits beyond their own means when it comes on someone else's dime.

You brought up your own personal example of designers not asking you questions, giving you a rate without knowing what you really expected, when I talk about designers looking at finding new solutions to old problems. You have to excuse me if I don't see how they are related.

I say you are off-topic and continue making the discussion about the designer-client relationship, which is a very important topic, but again I'm not sure how that became the focal point on an article that is about designers exploring.


Andy understands the very simple idea that when he sits down to design for a client, it's business.


I don't know how I have contradicted with this point when I have agreed with it in every comment that I write. You say we should agree to disagree, but I'm agreeing with mostly everything you keep on saying.

If we don't get it, what is the it we are supposed to get? What is this water that we can't drink?
 

Scrivs

12.30.09
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It also is a bit unfair for you to be the only commenting from your side of the argument, I'm sure it would be helpful if other people that have served on the client side stepped in with their experiences.
 

Tyme

12.30.09
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I say you are off-topic and continue making the discussion about the designer-client relationship, which is a very important topic, but again I'm not sure how that became the focal point on an article that is about designers exploring.


You wrote an article about pushing boundaries. I think most people agree with it so that leaves several discussion options:

1) Person agrees
2) Person disagrees
3) Explore ways to push boundaries - You brought up talking with clients and possibly not being able to do that with clients so how to deal with clients, what to do on their own sites...that "should" be topics that would cultivate an intelligent discussion.

I DIDN'T disagree with the focal point of your article. I disagreed with a portion of your response to me in comments, which falls into area #3 - who designers deal with clients to be able to push their boundaries. Intelligent discussions stemming from that? Should they learn on their client's dime? How much does pushing the limits increase the cost of the design? Does it increase the time it takes to create the site? To me, these are all relevant topics because business smart designers, when they sit down to create something, not only have their creative juices flowing but their business skills flowing (which I used Andy as an example of doing).

I shared my experience that yes, I think it would increase the cost because the lowest bid for a barebone template that I received was $5000 and a two week turn around. If I actually wanted graphics, and heaven forbid some JavaScript or Ajax, would the cost soar to $30,000? Which is ridiculous.

But you keep saying to keep comments on the focal point of your article, which is pushing their limits - and there is nothing to say to that but Go Scrivs!

So um...Go Scrivs!!!
 

Scrivs

12.30.09
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You are disagreeing with how I say designers should handle clients? Talk to them and make sure the right expectations are being set?

An example pushing of boundaries. The conventional method for search engines before Google was to not only have a search box, but also a directory of links. Google's owners come along and lets pretend they hire a designer to do their site. The designer looks at what the competition does, but says that he should do it differently so only gives them a search box and a logo. That is doing things differently in my opinion.

Andy's article brings about a new way to handle the design process. That is doing things differently.

If you aren't pushing the limits of your abilities then what am I paying you for? To just get the job done at an average rate?

The discussion should include ways to push boundaries in all phases of the designer's career and that includes the business side so again...get this...I agree.

So here is a new question, what exactly am I disagreeing with you on that makes you continue to say we are in disagreement? I'm even hoping for others to jump in because I know you and I will just go back and forth finding what is wrong in the other person's comment. Obviously, if I am saying that it would be cool to stick with the focal point then you say you are, wouldn't it be best for you to show me how you are like you did in this comment instead of telling everyone that we just can't drink the water we are being led to or how we need to ask the right questions?

Update: Edited comment to remove a single word to avoid people focusing on it instead of what I am trying to say overall.
 

Tyme

12.30.09
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Scrivs and I have been talking on Twitter and we realize we basically agree. For example I receive a comment like this:

"I wanted to talk about my frustrations on not being able to do something different because of the budget limitations I encounter. You made a good point but I don't want to upset Scrivs. Do you know of any places where designers talk about these problems?"

Scrivs agrees this would be a valuable discussion so...discuss! I agree everyone should push their limits. How to do this, be paid fairly for the time spent doing it, and giving a price the client will be happy with is a delicate balance that becomes easier with experience. One of the tricks in doing this is to cut down the time spent to create a design.

I think Andy's suggestion of developing in the browser is one way of doing this. If a designer becomes skilled at this it could easily cut down significant time dealing with the client. In my experience, I LOVE seeing exactly what it will look like. It is very disappointing to see a mockup and then the final product does not look like the mockup.

What do you guys think?
 

twe4ked

12.30.09
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I think the title of this article says it right, 'doing it different *might* be doing it right'.

I do agree we should step outside the box when we design but from a UX point of view the logo should be in the top right or at least at the top, and the navigation should also be at the top. I browse the web every day and when a site doesn't follow these basic standards I think 'cool, this designer did something different' but I continue to scroll to the top when I want to navigate somewhere different and I continue to look to the top right when I want to click the logo to go home. In the interest of design the website is different and cool, but in the interest of usability it fails. Usability should be the first thing in a designers mind (depending on the website) because it helps people to navigate around the site, meaning they are more likely to want to stay on the site and/or buy whatever it is the site is selling.
 

twe4ked

12.30.09
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BTW, I think these comments are to minimal, they need timestamps. Maybe add them as tooltips to the permalink?

:) Happy NYE
 

Scrivs

12.30.09
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I guess this is where I get confused because how does pushing yourself depend on what the budget is? I think we might need designers to come up with specific examples of where they see this happening because if I am saying that you can think outside the box and create a 10 column design for a blog instead of the common 2 column one, how does that increase the budget?

From what I am gathering, people seem to be mistaking trying new things they haven't done before that go outside of their skill set and of course that would increase the budget because the time of development increases.

An example that I keep on coming up with in my head is the new Aol logo. Ignoring whether one likes it or not, the design team went with something different than the traditional symbol and logotype. I don't see that being a different budget than any other logo design.
 

Scrivs

12.30.09
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Timestamps beyond the date that is already shown?
 

Mark

12.31.09
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I think you should look at good design from more of the emotional connection aspect. For example, if you go back through the history of all your sites, there's been countless designs and redesigns of the GUI. I doubt though, that no one ever came or left or were driven to interact because of a physical look or boundary broken. In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who can recall from memory what Whitespace v3 even looked like. They will recall, however, some of the more engaging content you wrote there.

If I'm interested in buying a car, I don't care what the web site looks like, only that they have the car I want. If I'm looking for a home, I should get caught up in the photography and imagine me, my furniture and family inside. If I'm reading a blog, the design of said blog should disappear so that I can focus on reading.

You've got a lovely site here, but seriously, by the time I get to the second paragraph, it looks like every other blog you've run over the years -- black text on a white background. Honestly, that's fine too, because I don't come here for your interface design skills and boundary pushing abilities. I come to read what's on your mind.

The "design" of your words and thoughts are what bring people here. You being able to present an argument, and back up that argument with some practical sense of reasoning (right or wrong) is where you personally push the boundary of design.

In the larger sense (designer working for a client) the "design" boundary that needs to be pushed is where the designer figures out the client "pain" and/or true offering, and presents a solution which pushes the boundary of initial customer skepticism out of the way.

"Design" needs to be considered in the larger sense of both the word and the experience.
 

Mark

12.31.09
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Taking another "doing it different" design example outside of the web, the Tampa Bay Bucs wanted a "different" kind of pirate when they designed their initial logo -- hence the "Bucco Bruce" winking pirate with a big orange plume hat that "struck fear in the hearts of no one." If I recall correctly, the team spent a good deal of time in the losing column, as well.

So now, they have a more standardized look, and a "doing it different" pirate ship (designed by the kings of doing it different, Disney) in the middle of their stadium to go along with their (still) losing record.

Bottom line -- pushing the boundary of design works best when you're also pushing the boundary of total experience.
 

franky

12.31.09
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When referring to gurus like Andy it is also interesting to highlight what Dan Rubin says in the comments on Andy's post at 24ways:

We must all remember that making clients happy is not our job—our responsibility is to focus on producing the best product for them. This can be difficult for people to grasp, and the mentality of “everything the client asks for/wants/expects is always right and we should please them no matter what level of frustration or extra work we must endure as a result“—which is primarily the fault of traditional agencies—doesn’t help in the least, but that doesn’t mean we should all just keep doing things the way they’ve always been done.


He also mentions that to reach that level of collaboration, communication from day 1 the key element is.

Somehow it is exactly that what Scrivs, a designer who writes for the design community, wants to convey with this post. Of course there is the approach to the same topic from the client/business owner as well and agencies usually have several people with excellent communication skills to bring home these points.

But when it comes to the design community, everyone should aspire to be the next Pininfarina, Armani or Zeldman. It's the beauty of being a designer, a plumber does not have that kind of freedom.
 

Mark

12.31.09
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"...everyone should aspire to be the next Pininfarina, Armani or Zeldman...


I think when you get caught up in being the next anything you're setting yourself up for a big fall. Everyone who's the standard bearer for the "next" to follow was always the first.

You should be too.
 

Scrivs

12.31.09
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@Mark: You are correct in that design needs to encompass the overall experience of the user, visually and emotionally. I'll have to explore that in another article and hopefully I don't write a book on it.

With the Bucs, if you are in Tampa, although you hated the orange unis of the old Bucs, you loved Buccaneer Bruce. Tampa fans have an emotional connection to that guy so it was good they went the non-traditional pirate route.

When it comes to aspiring to be the next Zeldman, I look at it as everyone should look to follow the trail by creating their own path.
 

karaterobot

12.31.09
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If I walked into a bathroom and found that the designer had radically redesigned the toilet, throwing out all the tired old assumptions about bowls and lids and handles, I'd be frustrated and possibly a little panicked. Some things you want to be eminently conventional, because you just want to use them.

As Steve Krug pointed out, conventions reduce the workload on users by not making them think. They also reduce the workload on the designer by not making them have to reinvent the wheel every time they design a site. If I know where the logo goes, and I know where the search box goes, I can focus my time and energy on the things about your site that *should* be different from everybody else's.

More to your previous question, ignoring conventions can increase the cost of development because you have to spend time figuring out what to do instead of following them. In a sense you'd be ignoring the lessons learned from Nielsen, Zeldman, and 15 years of using the Web.

You've got some number of hours budgeted, and you're spending them figuring out what to do instead of (say) underlining hyperlinks, rather than polishing and testing. If you also want to polish and test, well, you've gone over budget.

Later, you may spend even more time redesigning the site when user testing reveals nobody knows how to use it because they can't tell what's a link and what isn't. That's money spent on pushing yourself as a designer at the cost of your client.

You point out that web design isn't like plumbing, because you have to come up with new solutions to problems. While I've seen plenty of plumbing problems solved creatively, I know what you're saying. Our field continually presents novel creative and technical challenges. The question is, why not focus on solving those new challenges rather than rehashing the ones that have already been solved?

And frankly, if more web designers recognized the craft part of their job, they would be more successful at the art part of their job. To flagrantly misquote John W. Gardner, the society which scorns excellence in plumbing because plumbing is a humble activity, and tolerates shoddiness in design because design is an exalted activity, will have neither good plumbing nor good design.

It's no different than using best practices in anything else. Why should I pay attention to W3C standards? Why should I follow Apple's human interface guidelines? Who are they to tell me, the designer, what's best for my application? In web design, as in plumbing, some things should be eminently conventional, because you just want to use them.

(Digression: Your statement about Apple and Microsoft stuck in my craw a little bit. Apple doesn't ignore history and convention, it has a strong tradition of well-documented rules dating back to Jef Raskin at least, and Microsoft spends more on pure and applied research than Apple, both in raw numbers and as a percentage of revenue. Nobody at that level ignores the competition or follows them in lock-step.)

Think of a haiku. Rigid structure, clear conventions, infinite variety. Web pages are similar: they have built-in constraints which demand that certain similarities will exist between them, but within those constraints we have room for no end of creativity. It's not a bad thing.
 

theDude

01.04.10
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Great conversation. I think Scrivs and Tyme both have relevant and persuasive viewpoints, but I can particularly sympathise with clients wanting you to create sites based on their competitors.

By the way, Scrivs, I tried commenting on this using Opera but couldn't get anywhere with the Google/Twitter thing.
 

Tyme

01.05.10
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@karaterobot - I thought about what you wrote and there is a flaw in the logic. Bathrooms have already radically changed. When I visited my Mother in the hospital they made people wash their hands prior to entering the patient area to help reduce spreading swine flu. I stood at the sink a couple of minutes trying to figure out how the water turned on/off. Toilets have evolved as well. I'm having a hard time thinking of something that stays the same.

Just because it is common for the logo to be on the left and the search bar on the right doesn't mean that it is the best way to present a company's brand. For example, Scrivs said no one noticed that he didn't have the site name on his site. There is another very popular site that does that: http://dooce.com. She stopped some time ago. I think it would be a wonderful exercise to see how many people really care? As long as they can click up there to get back to the front page...do they care? I don't think so. If they don't care...what does that say about this tradition of putting it there? :)

Another point I was thinking of: depending on what type of designer the person wants to be, I can't think of a designer who thrived doing what everyone else did. The designers who are well respected and well known did something different.

However, I do not believe in reinventing the wheel when it is unnecessary. That is inefficient and the key is to know when it is best to fall back on what has already been done and when to create something different. One question that I noticed that pops up from time to time is why Scrivs created a custom forum? Why reinvent the wheel? For my site it would be reinventing the wheel to the point of being foolish to have something custom coded. For Scrivs' site, based on what he wants to do in the future, a custom option made for sense to him. However, a very basic reason is what is described in the article. Pushing his limits with coding. The more he codes the better skill he will have so he's not losing anything by doing it. He's gaining. Isn't that when readers get the most from articles? From people who actually "do" what they write about online? The article is being written from the standpoint of experience not speculation.

Mashable's redesign is a good example. Has everything in the "right place" but how well did the designers do in efficiently and effectively presenting the content?

In regards to budget...I could write a book on that. :)
 
 

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